ITINERARIO vol. VI (1982) 1, pp. 25-42<p></p>
<div align="center"><strong>THE HISTORIAN OF THE CITY OF THE MOTHER OF GOD,
FATHER MANUEL TEIXEIRA</strong></div>
<p></p>So far we have published half a dozen interviews, mostly
with historians engaged in university teaching. This time
we bring you one of a different nature with an extraordinarily
productive priest, Padre Manuel Teixeira, certainly
among the last of the real engage historians. That
is, those whose passion it is to recover the past of the
living communities in which they play an active role. Leonard
BlussC paid him a visit last January and jotted down
the following notes of discussions held over an cup of tea
in the beautifully restored archives of Macao and over a
glass of scotch in the highly nostalgic surroundings of
the St.Joseph's seminary, which but for father Teixeira is
now completely deserted. Empty rooms, iron beds, stacks of
newspapers, a forgotten rosary are the sole reminders of a
once busy ecclesiastical life. Tucked away in one corner
of the attic, Father Teixeira has nested himself among
thousands of dusty books and manuscripts. "I am the ghost
that cannot be chased away", he explains. Here follows a
"ghost" story you'd better believe:<p></p>
T. Well, I was borne in Portugal, in a villa called Freixo
de Espada-a-Cinta in the Tras-os-Montes. That village
is a missionary village. We have more missionaries from
that village than all the others put together. I came
to Macao in 1924 for my ecclesiastical studies at the
seminary of Macao under Jesuit fathers. My professor of
French was a father belonging to the Foreign Missions
Society of Paris. He was very interested in history and
was the only historian at that time. He published a
book called: Resumo da histdria de Macau. (A Summary of
Macao History.)<p></p>
Q. What was his name?<p></p>
T. Father Regis Gervaix. In 1925 he went to Peking and became
a professor of French literature at the Goverment
University and there he published a new history of Macao
in two volumes called "Abre'ge' de l'histoire de Macao".
So it was that father who gave me the taste and
inclination to carry on his work. Because on his departure
Macao was left without historians. When I finished
my studies in 1933, I started at once writing history
and published my first book in 1937. And since then I
have published a hundred and nine books on Macao history.
This year on the tenth of June I published four
volumes and next year on the tenth of June - because it
is a national holiday - another four volumes...<p></p>
Q. I am dumbfounded! What productivity! To what extent was
there already a tradition among priests to engage in
this kind of historical studies? Was it Gervaix who
started this?<p></p>
T. The first man who wrote a history of Macao was a Franciscan
friar, Jose de Jesus Maria: Azia Sinica e Japonica.
A very nice volume. Professor C.R. Boxer has published
the manuscript in two volumes. The book was
written in between 1742 and 1745. He spent three years
in Macao, consulting all the archives. Many of these do
not exist any more. Then the second history of Macao
was written in 1902 by a layman, Montalto de Jesus:
Historic Macao, then came father Gervais as I said and
then....<p></p>
Q. What about Sir Andrew Ljunsted?<p></p>
T. Yes, in 1834 he published here the History of Macao, an
historical sketch of the Portuguese settlements in China.
He was the factor of the Swedish in Macao. He used
the documents collected by Bishop Dom Joaquim de Souza
Saraiva, the Bishop of Peking. He arrived in Macao in
1804 and died here in 1818. All his documents he handed
over to Ljungsted and Ljungsted acknowledged in the introduction
of his history that he used the bishop's documents.<p></p>
Q. You are not a Jesuit yourself, are you?<p></p>
T. No, I am a diocesan priest. I was ordained in 1934.<p></p>
Q. How is it possible to combine your daily work as a
priest with writing history?<p></p>
T. I was at the same time a priest, a teacher in seminary,
a teacher in the government high school and editor of
the Boletim eclesiastico da Diocese de Macau, our ecclesiastical
magazine. It actually was in the Boletim
that I published my historical articles. I was editor
from 1934 until 1946. My historical articles are still
published in that Boletim.<p></p>
Q. Do you think that being a priest made it much easier to
collect materials than if you had not been one?<p></p>
T. Oh yes, sure. I have access to all the archives of Ma-
cao. I am a very good friend with the government of Macao:
so, they open everything to me. And then there are
of course the bishop's archives. I have consultated
them all. I have published two volumes on the lives of
every priest in Macao over the last four hundred years.
Two big volumes, the priest of Macao. I have access to
all archives, and therefore it was easy for me to write
history. Now take for instance the various parishes of
Macao. I have consulted every single church. All the
registers of baptisms, deaths and marriages at every
church of Macao from the beginning until now.<p></p>
Q. You have produced a hundred books. Would it be right to
say that your main objective is to publish important
historical sources to make sure that they can be used
by other scholars? Or do you work from a theoretical
framework? What do you think about history, what should
history be according to you? Have you got a philosophy
as a historian of Macao?<p></p>
T. Well, my objective is to note down all the important
events of the Macao Diocese. And to collect as many
topics as possible. I publish all these documents. If I
wouldn't do so they would be lost for ever. My main
work is the history of the Macao diocese. That is the
church of Macao. I have published already sixteen volumes
and there are four more to come. It is called Macau
e a sua diocese (Macao and its diocese). Because
the civil history of Macao is linked with the church
history of Macao it is impossible to publish about one
without knowing the other. So while consulting all the
church records of Macao I also have to consult the others,
regarding the civil history. So far I have published
four volumes about Medicine in Macao, and one
big volume about the military. Then the women of Macao
and two volumes about the Toponomy of Macao together
1200 pages. Now I have published the first volume of a
history of Macao called Macao in the sixteenth century.
This is a series of volumes (with entries) covering
every single year from 1509 up to 1982. One volume or
more volumes for every century.<p></p>
Q. So you are really a chronicler, writing history year by
year! When I just asked you whether you were not in a
favourable position as a priest for writing history, I
also was thinking that you may have met through your
work a popular tradition that you may not have run across
in the archives.<p></p>
T. Yes. As Macao people have known me for fifty-eight
years, they often leave me all their papers when they
die. They say "Father is the only one interested in
these papers." The niece of Montalto de Jesus gave me
all his papers and notes. Another example: the secretary
of the Macao club (built in 1857) gave me all the
minutes and documents of the club, so I published a
book with all these documents given privately to me.
The people say: "Better to give it to Father than any
body else. If we don't want this book then let us give
it to Father."<p></p>
Q. When you arrived in Macao in 1924 it probably was still
a very sleepy city. It must have been fascinating to
witness the transformation of this colony.<p></p>
T. The boom of Macao started about ten years ago. We had
riots in 1966 and everything came to a standstill until
1970. Since then a lot of overseas Chinese money has
started to flow in because Hongkong land is very expensive.
Only then they started to destroy old buildings.
Overseas Chinese from Indonesia and Thailand are still
investing. Macao is changing into a modern city. We are
now trying to preserve old buildings like the ones you
are in now, the Archives. The government bought the
whole row of houses in this street and restored it. But
I am afraid we fight a loosing battle.<p></p>
Q. You just said if one wants to understand the history of
Macao you have to understand the history of its diocese.
Now this is not true any more nowadays, is it?<p></p>
T. Oh no, on the contrary. The church is indispensable.
You know why? Now what happens? We have social work, so
many orphanages, so many houses for blind men, children,
for people of all ages. Besides that, the church
is in charge of all these refugees. The boat people of
Vietnam, the refugees of China. We have a whole quarter
of refugees. It all started in 1926, when the Russian
adviser Borodin controlled Canton. We have put a
church, a school and several clinics in 1982 for them
near the Green Island. There are a hundred thousand people
in this particular quarter. We are in charge of
them. In Macao the refugees go on Sunday to the Ricci-
House for rice rations and provisions distributed by
the Jesuits. Whatever the U.N. gives finds its way
through the church to the refugees.
Let me give you another example. Father'Cardim S.J.
wrote a book called Batalhas da Companhia de Jesus. He
wrote that when the Manchus took Canton, thousands and
thousands of Chinese people took refuge in Macao in
1649-1650 and the Jesuits distributed alms to these refugees
on the staircase of St.Paul's. What they did
three hundred years ago, we are doing now. All these
things are connected. The government trusts us, the
church. So whatever money the government wants to distribute
it hands out through the church. We have nurses,
doctors, teachers...
In past interviews I have talked with historians who
are mainly interested in histoire problem. This really
is the first time that I speak with somebody who has
chosen to write the history of a diocese or a settlement
as his life work, a rather restricted subject.
Oh no, not restricted at all. The Macao diocese was
created on the 23rd January of 1576. At that time it
had jurisdiction over the whole of China, Japan and all
neighbouring islands. That means it covered China, Korea,
Japan, Siam, Malacca. So when I write about the
diocese of Macao I do not limit myself to that particular
settlement of Macao. I published a book on China,
another on Korea, three on Singapore and Malacca, two
on Vietnam, one on Thailand. My historical studies cover
the whole Far East except the Philippines!<p></p>
Q. So books about Macao are rather an offspring of your
historical work on the diocese?<p></p>
T. Take for instance the islands Taipa and Coloane. I went
there and spent many months consulting the local archives.
It was very cold over there.<p></p>
Q. You mean the small islands in front of Macao? Do they
have their own archives?<p></p>
T. Yes, I published a book only one year ago. In the meantime
the University, East Asia University, has settled
there. The students and professors are very keen on 
understanding
the history of that island. So I gave them
this book. The History of Taipa and Coloane. It is
about the fishing villages, the schools that were up
there, the local commanders and administrators, the
fight against privacy, just a local history.
One of the books that I like best, although it may not
be a very profound and scientific book, is the one I
wrote about the toponomy of Macao. A very interesting
subject, the history of all the street names of Macao.
Tourists like very much another book called The Voices
of Macao Stones, that means the history of every single
building, either church, or fortress or monument which
carries an inscription.<p></p>
Q. This brings me upon another question. This toponomy of
Macao really stands for the Portuguese names. When you
look for inscriptions, they will be the Portuguese inscriptions.
What about the Chinese? The history of Macao
of course also is the history of the Chinese, not
just the history of the Portuguese. This always must
have been a big problem for you: how to write a composite
history in which Chinese as well as Portugueese
play a role.<p></p>
T. This is a big problem, for we have no Chinese historians
over here and therefore I try to ask the Chinese
to help. But I cannot find anyone. Suppose the books
that I am writing now, Macao year by year. I contacted
some Chinese and asked them: do you know some Chinese
events in Macao during these years? They even don't
know the last fifty years ! It is very hard to find out
something from the Chinese because there is no Chinese
historian in Macao.<p></p>
Q. Aren’t there any Chinese historical sources if we just
forget about the Chinese newspapers of recent times?<p></p>
T. Not worthwhile to publish. The ones they occasionally
publish in the paper, I know very well. They just repeat.<p></p>
Q. They never see it from their own point of view?<p></p>
T. No, this is the real pity, you know. The only book we
have, a very good one indeed, was written in 1745-1746
or so. The Ou-mun kei-leak. The history of Macao written
by two Chinese inspectors that were sent by the
Canton authorities to inspect Macao. They produced a
report from the Chinese perspective. It has been translated
by Luis Gonzaga Gomes who was the director of the
Macao archives.<p></p>
Q. Now yesterday when I tried to find the way to your seminary
and asked for the Largo de Santo Augostinho, the
Chinese didn’t understand. They have a completely different
name for it. So they have their own history?<p></p>
T. It would be interesting to write a Chinese history of
streetnames, but there is nobody. It is a pity. I give
you a few examples. You are quite right. There is a
street here called Rua do Hospital where the first hospital
was built in 1569. St.Raphael’s hospital. Now lately,
in 1940, this name was changed into Rua Pedro Nolasco
de Silva, but the Chinese name is quite different
; Pak-ma-hong meaning the factory of the white
horse. Why, because the consul of Hannover once lived
there. The flag of Rannover had a white horse on it.
And that struck the Chinese. Pak-ma-hong, the street of
the white horse, very nice indeed.
One more street: Jardim de Sao Francisco, the Chinese
call it Kasilan fa yGn, meaning the Garden of the Castillians.
Because the Franciscan friars that put up a
convent over there were Spaniards from the Philippines.
These Chinese streetnames are much more interesting
from a sociological point of view.
So we are waiting for a Chinese historian. Now we have
a university and I have told its staff: “This is the
opportunity, start by all means!"
By the way, the same goes for this history of Medicine
in Macao. I do not know anything about the Chinese medicine.
(Father Teixeira recently published a four-volume
Historia de Medicina em Macao. Ed.)<p></p>
Q. The question is: was there some interaction between
Western and Chinese medicine? Just think of the Irish
painter George Chinnery who so much influenced the
Chinese painters in Macao at the beginning of the 19th
century.<p></p>
T. Chinese indeed came to study Western medicine here. One
of them was Sun Yat-sen, the founder of the Chinese republic.<p></p>
Q. Don't you think that this difficulty to find a Chinese
counterpart to discuss historical matters, stands for
something more? Was there ever a dialogue between Portuguese
and Chinese? Was there even a cultural exchange
of any importance? Only a handful of Chinese became
Christians but the big majority of course remained Buddhists
or Taoists. So even in religuous matters the influence
of the church may have remained rather small.<p></p>
T. That is a question which is difficult to answer. In a
few cases we know there was such interaction. Medicine,
painting, porcelain.
Just to come back on this question of Chinese sources.
There are some interesting cemetery stones of mandarins
who were buried in Macao. I put the inscriptions in my
book. All the Chinese inscriptions of the Pagodas I also
have published. You see, I have written a book Pagodas
in Macao and another in English on the Temple of
the Goddess Ama. In it are all the Chinese inscriptions
and the history of every pagoda, descriptions of the
idols in the temples and padogas, the gods and goddesses
with their legends. When I collected these stories
the Chinese asked me in amazement "Father, do you
really believe in them?" Of course, I won't believe in
them, but I publish these stories as they are known.<p></p>
Q. Do you feel that Macao has become sinicised during your
stay here in Macao since 1924?<p></p>
T. Well, Macao has always been Chinese you know, since the
beginning upto now. Macao has always been Chinese. We
Portuguese here are just a drop of water in the ocean.
So in my time when I arrived here the Portuguese still
lived in a quarter of the Sa"o Lourenqo parish up to
Praia Grande and the Chinese were living on the other
side, behind the Council. Governor Barbosa who was my
very good friend, was three times governor, in 1918,
in 1926 and 1937 and died in 1940 here in Macao. This
governor once told me: "Father, it is very good for us
that it is like that. Because if they (the Chinese) rebel
against us, we point our guns and finish the Chinese
quarter." But then what happened is this. The Portuguese
had no money so they sold their own houses to
Chinese people, and Chinese people built new houses all
over Macao. And then the Portuguese started to go to
the outskirts to rent low-priced houses. So now the population
is all mixed up. There has been an important
transformation. The Portuguese used to live in between
the Sa"o Lourenqo and the coast. That is over now.<p></p>
Q. And that is the end of the historic Macao that you have
been studying?<p></p>
T. Yes, but there still is a language barrier. All Macao
born Portuguese speak Chinese but they don't read it
all. So there is a more or less separated community
left. The Chinese don't need to speak Portuguese. They
are traders and mind their own business. The official
language is Portuguese, but the first language is Chinese,
the second language is English, not Portuguese.
Portuguese only comes third. Many Chinese want to learn
English. We have a lot of schools for them. There are
only two or three Portuguese schools. So very few people
of the 400,000 inhabitants go to these Portuguese
schools.<p></p>
Q. The Portuguese always had to deal with the problem to
manage this enormous majority of Chinese living together
with them. How was this politically solved? Did they
always rule through Chinese captains?<p></p>
T. No, in Macao there never was a capitan China like in
other overseas Chinese settlements. There was a Chinese
mandarin residing here. This so-called tso-tang, governor,
settled in Macao in 1744 or so. So all the Chinese
were under this mandarin. He ruled the Chinese and applied
Chinese laws to this subjects. So we had nothing
to do with the Chinese. The Chinese community was
apart, outside the walls of the city, and was ruled by
the Chinese mandarin. This was the rule for many years.
The governor that expelled the mandarin and the Chinese
customs was Jogo Maria Ferreira do Amaral. The government
said Macao was Portuguese, not Chinese; so Amaral
was appointed to liberate Macao from the Chinese. He
closed the Chinese customs and chased the mandarins
away. This was in 1848. The following year he was
murdered by Chinese disguised as beggars. He is the only
governor that has a statue in Macao. Amaral in front
of Lisboa Hotel.<p></p>
Q. Wasn't it torn down during the cultural revolution?<p></p>
T. Aah! They couldn't do anything, because it is made of
bronze, you know. Up till Amaral the Chinese were ruling
their own Chinese community, we did not have jurisdiction
over them. Amaral tore down the walls and
built a road right to the barrier which separates Macao
peninsula from the mainland. He built this road over
some tombstones and this was one reason why he was murdered.
He touched the Feng-shui of the graves. A crime
to the Chinese!<p></p>
Q. So under Amaral the Portuguese colonial government suddenly
expanded its jurisdiction over the Chinese population.
What were the political consequences?<p></p>
T. Well, the Chinese haven't any political aspirations. If
they want to take Macao, they can take it at once. But
they are not even represented in the government. When
there are elections they do not take part. There are no
parties at all. So they are not politically interested.
What they want is to engage freely in trade and fill
their stomachs, to get money, get the best education
for their children and enjoy themselves. Nothing else.
So what you have now is Mr Ho Yin the chairman of the
Chinese Chamber of Commerce. He is deputy of our legislative
assembly and deputy of the Peking assembly at
the same time. He is the link between Macao and Peking.
So we are quite free here. There is no party here, only
the Chamber of Commerce, a Chinese institution. When we
want to undertake something regarding the Chinese, Ho
Yin goes to Peking and asks the Peking government
whether it agrees. For a new harbour, the airport, we
must have permission from Peking. Now since we have opened
diplomatic relations with China we are very
friendly with Peking. No trouble!<p></p>
Q. You told me that Macao's outlook is changing very
quickly. Old houses are torn down, high skyscrapers replace
them. It is loosing its identity.<p></p>
T. Yes. In ten years time I don't know what will be left
of Macao. Because all these capitalists from various
parts of the Far East are investing money in Macao.
Even though the prices are going up and up, Macao is
far cheaper than Hongkong. A friend of mine bought an
apartment four years ago for 150,000 Macao dollars, now
he has been offered 600,000, but he refuses te sell it.<p></p>
Q. What is your reaction as the city historian against
this all?<p></p>
T. Well, we are fighting for the conservation of our heritage
but it is a lost battle.<p></p>
Q. Who are we? Is that you?<p></p>
T. There is a committee for that, appointed by the government.
We are trying to keep as many historical buildings
as possible, but take this example. I was in this
committee myself, and resigned, actually all of us resigned!
Because you see we pointed out which buildings
should be saved, but 80% of them was demolished anyhow.
The capitalists offer lots of money. It is impossible
to resist. Another example. They wanted to build two
very high skyscrapers next to the town square. It would
destroy the beauty of the square. There was a young
university professor from America, whose wife was writing
a book on Macao. He was a visiting professor at the
university of Hongkong. They arrived here and came to
see me. I told them whatever I could for that book. And
then I told that man: You see what they are going to
do? He said: "What? This is the best square in the Far
East, I never saw a square like this one!" He did not
tell me anything more than that, but quickly wrote a
letter, a very nice letter, to the minister of Cultural
affairs in Lisbon. In that letter he gave all the reasons
why the houses around the square should not be demolished.
And he sent me a copy, and I photocopied it
again and sent it to the government of Macao, my
friends in Lisbon, and the minister in Lisbon, to
everyone. I wrote: "Please keep the square as it is.
Don't touch!" And we saved it. The same thing happened
with the Bella Vista Hotel. One morning I was coming
from Mass at Sant Rosa and a lady comes up to me and
says all excited "Father! Father! Father! They want to
destroy Bella Vista and put up a thirty-storey Building.
" What! I was going to say goodbye to the minister
of Cultural Affairs who just happened to visit Macao.
When I arrived there I met the Director of the Public
Works Department. He has been my pupil in school; so I
told him: "My dear boy, if you allow this hotel to be
destroyed, I shall chop your head off!" So he says:
"No, father, no. I do not know anything about it?" But
I was sure that this matter was already under study at
his department. Then a committee came from Lisbon to
look into these things and I took them around. I told
these architects "look at this", so they answered
"Father, we are not going to demolish it, we shall allow
the owner to extend the building up to Praia Grande.
The building itself will be restored to its original
state."<p></p>
Q. So you are not just fighting windmills, there are results!
Let us turn back to your publications.<p></p>
T. I always have done two things at the same time. I was
parish priest for thirty years. Confessions, communions,
masses, funerals, weddings. I also have been in
Singapore for fifteen years. The people of Singapore
are the best people on earth ! Very pious and very religious.
In Singapore I also published three books about
the Portuguese Mission in Singapore and Malacca. Now in
Macao I have already published sixteen volumes about
the Macao diocese and besides all the others: Military
History, Medicine, Police Force, Navy. Parish work and
history work. By doing so everybody is kind to me. One
instance, at the first of January the Governor invited
me with all his secretaries and their wives. He told me
"Father, I invite you not on account of your dignity,
because you have no authority, but on account of your
work." All the doors are open to me. If I need anything
I'll go into the office and people will say "Okay,
okay, don't worry!" Even the governor told me "every
book you want to publish, we shall print it, through
the Tourism Department or the Education Department. I
publish now four volumes every year. I send them, they
type them, they print and publish. On my 70th birthday
I received a public homage from the government.<p></p>
Q. You were sent to Singapore and became interested in
nearby Malacca, another ancient Portuguese colonial
town.<p></p>
T. I intended to publish the history of the governors of
Malacca in twelve volumes. Only the Portuguese governors
until 1640. There is a lot of material but I had
to stop, because in 1962 I was transferred to Macao.<p></p>
Q. Malacca was cut away from Portugal in 1640. Macao has
stayed Portuguese until this day. Now, if you compare
the two communities. What differences do you see?<p></p>
T. Although the Portuguese community of Malacca has been
separated from us for three hundred years, it is still
attached to us, still loves us so much. After two hundred
years of Dutch rule, 150 years of English rule the
languages of Malacca, the Parpia cristso, the Portuguese
language of the sixteenth century has remained.
Now if they get married and I ask them: "what is your
religion?" they answer "Portuguese". They don't say Roman
Catholic. Portuguese is synonimous with Catholic.
They keep our dances, songs, folklore, everything.<p></p>
Q. What gives these Portuguese communities inner strength?
The Malacca Portuguese just look as Malay as their
countrymen living around them. Malay is one of the easier
languages to learn. Is the secret behind all this
religion?<p></p>
T. Yes, when the Dutch came they tried to convert the Malaccans.
Impossible, they ran away and started another
city called Malaka Pindah, (Malacca removed). Macao is
under Portuguese rule, there are schools, there is everything
for the benefit of the community. In Malacca
there are no schools, but only that Portuguese sentiment.
I am not surprised that Macao under the Portuguese
government, flag, language, has a Portuguese
flavour, but in Malacca there is nothing. They are not
Portuguese subjects but in spite of that their love to
Portugal is more wonderful than that of the inhabitants
of Macao. They always keep faith in our country. Inter-
esting, isn't it?
Many things that we have in Macao originally came from
Malacca, the dishes, the cooking, the sarong kebaya,
the dress. Many words in the Macao patois really are
from Malacca. In the very beginning when the Portuguese
came here they came from Malacca. They had no Chinese
wives, so they brought with them either wives or lovers
- often four or more each - because they were very
rich merchants. When the Jesuits came here they saw so
many girls in the houses that they started to preach
and one day four hundred of these girls were sent back.
Another time six hundred! When these Indian and Malaccan
girls had been partly sent back, then Portuguese
started to get married to Chinese girls. But in the very
beginning of Macao, Malacca exercised a very strong
influence.<p></p>
Q. Now what about Jose M. Braga and C.R. Boxer, both historians
of Macao?<p></p>
T. My very, very good friends you know. I was the editor
of the Boletim Eclesidstico da Diocese de Macau from
1934 onwards. And they both wrote in it. This magazine
became internationally known, universities from all
parts of the world subscribed to the Boletim on account
of the articles by Braga and Boxer.
Braga wrote very good articles and books. He published
in our Boletim about the Jesuits in Asia, (the Jesuitas
na Asia, title of an 18th century archival collection.
Ed.) over six hundred pages, and he still has a thousand
pages to publish. But Braga failed in one respect:
he gave up his writings. He stopped that important work
with the biographies and bibliographies of Jesuits. He
was a teacher of English in our seminary, then he became
involved in business. He sold his books to Canberra
University and was appointed librarian of his own
library. Not long ago, in 1970 I attended an Orientalist
Congress in Canberra and I insisted with him to
finish his work, but he is tired now; he is over eighty
years old and lives in America.<p></p>
Q. Braga is alive and well in America?<p></p>
T. Listen, sometimes one gets tired. It is as simple as
that. He could have written while he was in Canberra.
The Portuguese ambassador and myself pressed him but he
said "Father, you do it, I give you all the manuscripts".
But I cannot do everything and he said "DO it
yourself". Father Silva Rego asked him & publish Asia
Extrema by father Antdnio Gouveia. A 19 century book
in manuscript. But he never did it. It is a pity, a
great man, he could have been like Boxer, but he stopped.
Boxer, Braga and I wrote together for the Boletim.
I wrote about the Macao diocese and they published
their studies on Portuguese history in Macao and Asia.
Our ecclesiastical magazine started in 1903 and is
still going on. I publish every month long articles in
the Boletim and then later on put them together in
books. These facilities in publications are very important
you know. All my ecclesiastical books have been
published by the diocese of Macao, all my books on the
civil history of Macao have been published by the government.<p></p>
Q. So you have access to all the sources, you have got
printing presses...<p></p>
T. If I need anything from Lisbon I ask for it, they send.
So it is quite okay. And if I need something from Leiden,
I think a friend of mine will send something!<p></p>
Q. Do you have any connections with other ecclesiastical
historians? Do you meet each other now and then?<p></p>
T. No, but I correspond with colleagues in Japan, Jesuits
in Rome, Franciscans in Madrid. In Rome I had very good
friends, the late father Schurhammer and now father
Wicki. Schurhammer revised all my books on Malacca.
They send me their precious works, such as Documenta
Indica by father Wicki, or Sinica Franciscana which
presently is edited by Father Margiotti. In France
there was my good friend Henri Bernard. Now there is
Father Joseph Dehergne. He has overshadowed Father
Pfister. You have his book? It is a classical one: Re'-
pertoire des Je'suites de Chine de 1552 i 1800.
Okay, my dear, anything else?<p></p>
Q. Yes, the last question, how do you want to be remembered:
as the historian, who wrote a hundred books about
Macao, as the man who saved many historic buildings, or
do you want to be remembered as the friendly parish
priest who kisses in the streets all the nice girls he
has baptised and given communion.<p></p>
T. Homo, humus, fama, fumus, finis, cinis.
A man is dust, the fame is smoke, the end is ashes.
That is to be remembered.<p></p>
Q. Your books will not turn into ashes I hope.<p></p>
T. No, the books will remain. The only thing that remains
you know. And this is my consolation.